Good morning. Good morning. Joe, I didn't change my opinion. Just so you know, we're still in agreement. Get that out of the way right away. There's no fear.

Revelation chapter five, or if you're my high school Bible teacher, Revelations chapter five. And we are going to come right to the edge of the tribulation beginning. Let me open with a word of prayer.

Heavenly Father, we are humbled by the fact that we're approaching your word and you have given it to us, it is perfect, it is without fault, it is life-giving, it is to be handled carefully. We pray for your help by your spirit, that we would rightly divide it, that we would take the lessons from it, that we would worship you, especially as this chapter is centered around worshiping you and worshiping your son, our Lord. We pray for your help. In Christ's name, amen.

All right. Last week, Joe brought us into heaven, as it were, in Revelation chapter four. And you'll notice that just the way the scene is laid out. Maybe I'll just do this here. Got a couple charts to show you for an overview of where the book is heading.

Readable, okay. You've got, I'm not going to draw a picture of the one sitting on the throne because that would be violating the second commandment, but I'm going to, we'll draw some kind of throne here. Then there's one on the throne. We'll just leave that blank. There's a rainbow somewhere. Maybe it's up here. Maybe it's like this. I'm not really sure. And there's four living creatures, one, two, three, four, going around. And it looks surprisingly like Isaiah, or maybe not surprising, because we're brought into the same scene.

What Isaiah doesn't mention, But what John does is that there's 24 thrones. Maybe around the whole thing. Maybe just here in front. We don't know exactly. There's like a sea of glass that is, seems to be the ground that everyone is sitting or standing on or flying around. And then as you go further out, there's a huge multitude. We'll see that in Multitude, not multitude. Multitude. Okay, try not to be bro-y today.

And John's caught up here. Now, I'm gonna make the case in agreement with Joe that John is caught up And based on what we see in chapter five especially, John is not just caught up into heaven, but he's caught up into heaven in the future of his time, okay? And even the future of our time. That he's seen real time what's happening at the last day. He's there at the last day. It's not just that he's caught up into heaven and seeing what happens, because what you'll notice is in chapter five, you have the Lord Jesus coming, taking the scroll, and then beginning to break open each seal sequentially, and we start to then move through the tribulation.

So the events that John is seeing are not events that are happening right now. They're events that are guaranteed to happen, certain to happen. He's there in the future, in spirit, and just, If you figure out how that works, I guess you can tell me, but what's impossible with man is possible with God, so.

Now, if you remember in Isaiah's vision in chapter six, he sees the Almighty, and whose train of his robe fills Does it say all of heaven, I think is what it says. I don't remember exactly the whole temple or I forget exactly how it says the whole temple. That sounds right to me. And he sees the four living creatures circling and saying, holy, holy, holy. And we see that same thing here in verse eight. The four living creatures, each of them having six wings, full of eyes around and within, day and night, they do not cease to say, holy, holy, holy. This is chapter four. Sorry, I should have told you. Chapter four, verse eight. Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come.

So, he sees what Isaiah saw, that Isaiah doesn't tell us that he sees 24 thrones. Isaiah doesn't mention that. Now, this is an argument from silence, so it doesn't, I can't, it's not a button down argument to say that the 24 thrones guaranteed were not there, and the 24 elders were not there when Isaiah saw it, but I don't think they were.

Because these 24 elders, and we'll just talk about this in a second, again, I agree with Joe, this is the church. These are 24 representatives of the church, not representative of in the sense that there's a symbolic representation, I think they're actual men. But they're 24 chosen men to represent the church, is most likely what it is.

And that would fit, just exegetically, that would fit if we're understanding this as the future. because the church is, at this point, if he's been taken to right before the tribulation, then the church is not on earth. The church is glorified with the Lord, raptured. And you would have then, these are not just, there's not just the souls of 24 men from the church, but this is body and soul glorified with the Lord, okay? That's my take on this.

Now, let me read chapter five here. I'll read verses one through, well, it's only 14 verses. Let me go ahead and just read the whole thing and then we'll get into... saying why I'm taking the elders to be that way, and we'll look at the scene and what's happening.

Then I'm hoping to do an overview, and I got a helpful chart from Robert Thomas, a helpful chart from Paul Binware, and another helpful chart from Paul Binware to just go through. the flow of the book here, because that's, we're at this, we're kind of at the launching pad, or the whole book's going to just start coming really fast. It gets faster and faster as you go along.

So just to, if we can get that big picture view, I think that'd be helpful. And it might help the teachers, all of us teachers, as we're teaching to be able to refer back to. So that's my plan. We'll see it, Lord willing, if it's able to come to be.

All right, Revelation chapter five, verses one through 14. And I'm reading from the New American Standard Bible.

I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a book, written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals? And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it.

Then I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the book or to look into it. And one of the elders said to me, stop weeping. Behold, the lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals.

And I saw between the throne with the four living creatures and the elders a lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him who sat on the throne. When he had taken the book, the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying, worthy are you to take the book and to break its seals, for you were slain and purchased for God with your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign upon the earth.

Now, if you have the King James Version, you probably recognize, you probably saw that it was a little different in verse nine. We'll talk about that when we get there.

Verse 11, then I looked and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, worthy is the lamb that was slain to receive power. and riches, and wisdom, and might, and honor, and glory, and blessing. And every created thing which is in heaven, on earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying to him who sits on the throne, and to the lamb, be blessing, and honor, and glory, and dominion forever and ever. And the four living creatures kept saying amen, and the elders fell down and worshiped.

Okay, this is a glorious scene. I think we're gonna be there. I think we're gonna be in the myriads and myriads and thousands of thousands, okay? If one of you or me is not chosen as these 24, which probably is not gonna happen, let's be honest. But I think we're gonna be there observing this, which is just be amazing. My dad would say that's unbelievable, but not because he doesn't believe it, but because it's just so far beyond being able to conceive. He told me that he told Pastor Will, it was unbelievable, and Pastor Will told him, you mean inconceivable, which is right. That's exactly what he means.

So here's the scene, okay? You've got a scroll. There's a scroll here. I guess we'll just do it like that. And It could be scrolls in the ancient world. You had two sorts, and I've seen a Hebrew scroll at the Master's Seminary. I think it was from the Middle Ages, I think. It was... not papyrus, what's the other, what am I trying to think of? Yeah, it's vellum, so that's parchment, which is animal leather. And it was written only on the inside. Usually you didn't write on the outside, especially with a papyrus scroll, because papyrus was plant fiber pressed together, and usually at a cross pattern, glued and pressed together. The back of it was really rigid. So you didn't want to write on it because it'd be scratchy and bumpy and it didn't make a clean line. So you wrote only on the front.

Well, this scroll is written on the front and the back. Does that tell us what it's made out of? Well, it's in heaven. I don't know what it's made out of. But usually you didn't write on the back unless it was an official document. in which case then you would write the contents of a document, whether it's a marriage license or a title deed of some sort or some kind of contract or something, and you would fold it and seal it and you would summarize the contents on the back. The back that's now on the top and such. 

And if I think there was a, if I'm remembering right, there's a kind of Hebrew contract that was folded several times, and the more official, the more folded it became, and the more sealed, it was sealed at each fold, and it was signed by a witness at each fold. So the more witnesses you had, the more official it was, kind of the loftier and grander it was, that kind of thing. 

So this is a scroll. New American Standard says book. It's the Greek word biblios, which is book or scroll, but we think of book as this kind of thing with a binding on one side and it opens up. This is actually a codex, is this style of binding. And it came about in the 19th century. Probably in the 2nd century AD is when the Codex was first coming about, maybe the late 1st century. 

So there may have been the Codex invented by the time John is writing, but it's certainly not widespread enough for that to be what he's talking about. So it's a scroll. And they were all referred to as books. So don't let that trouble you. If that has troubled you for some reason, just say, why does it say book when it's a scroll? Well, it's the Greek word that means both.

And it's written inside and on the back, and it's sealed seven times. Now, you've probably seen representations of this, where it'll look like this. Then you'll have the parts, the handles here coming off. And then you'll see these seven seals. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. And I'm going to contend that's not probably how this was, because as he breaks the seal, It would stand to reason that as he breaks the seal, he's able to open it and read part of it. And the reading of it, the contents of it, are what we're seeing play out. Okay, in the Four Horsemen, right, in chapter six, you've got the first seal is the white horse, the second seal is war, the third seal is famine, the fourth seal is death, the fifth seal is martyrs, right? So as he's, I don't think it's that he's snapping each seal and all these judgments come out, and then he's able to open it and read it. But it's as he breaks the seal, he's able to open it partway, the judgments are enacted on the earth, which is, I think we should understand, is the Lord Jesus, as we're gonna see here, he takes the scroll and he's the one who brings these about on the earth. And that's very clear from the sixth seal, where they'd say, hide us from the presence of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the lamb. This is Christ's wrath that's being poured out. And so the scroll is a scroll of his wrath.

You may have heard people say that this is a, This is a title deed of creation. Yeah, that's what this is. That's certainly within bounds. That's not wrong. I'm not gonna say that's wrong. And it could be, but if it is, it includes the judgments of God, the judgments of God that will be used to reestablish really the right of the Lord to rule over creation. 

So if it is the title deed, we can't understand that. in some way not having reference to the punishments that come, to the wrath that come. We have to understand the contents of the scroll is including the wrath that we're seeing, okay? Because that's just patently obvious from what occurs in the book. 

A seal is opened, the scroll is unfurled enough, and the wrath is poured out. Sequentially, okay. I almost said incrementally, but they're so they're so all encompassing. It's there's nothing really incremental about it It's it's sweeping but it's sequentially so 

How is how should it be sealed then well, it's probably sealed if the scroll is wound like this It's probably sealed like there's a seal here then there's a seal here, and there's a seal here, and there's a seal here, a seal here. You see this? So it's probably on the end where the seals are. So you break this seal, then you can read this section. You follow? Make sense? 

Okay, Robert Thomas helped me with that. And I listened to Pastor Custis' sermon on this passage. And a young Pastor Custis, younger sounding anyway. I think it was from 1984. And he said, if you can figure out how a scroll is sealed seven times, he was like, tell me. So Robert Thomas did. And if Pastor Cusses were here, I would tell him. He figured it out, I think. But he's going to be there watching it happen. So he'll see it all occur in real time, just the same as us.

OK. Who's holding the scroll? before the Lamb takes it. Who's holding it? God. Yeah, God the Father, right? So God's holding this. Presumably then, it's an official document that only God has the right to look at, to open, sealed by God. So then the question comes in verse two, a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice. So this probably goes out throughout all creation. I don't know if the people on earth after the rapture happens, if they're gonna hear this, but it seems like it is with how, it seems like every creature ever is examined to see who is able to take this, who is worthy. to open the book and to break its seals. Worthy, axios, worthy. It's worthy in terms of its quality. Who is of, who is qualified? Who is of the kind of quality needed to take and read and bring about the word and the work of God? That's, You understand how lofty, is lofty the right word? How far and away above us the qualification needs to be in order for this to be the case.

The cherubim circling the Lord, they're probably cherubim because they're called cherubim in the Ark of the Covenant, has the mercy seat on it, which represents the throne of God. Holy of Holies represents this part of heaven. And the Ark of the Covenant is covered by the cherubim, who are, it's meant to picture this. And even later on in the book, it'll talk about from the sanctuary, which is the same word as the holy of holies in the temple. The ark in heaven is there, the sanctuary is open, and there's flashes of thunder and lightning and stuff, so there's a heavenly reality that the earthly temple pictured, and pictured probably as directly as possible. The high priest represented Christ coming in, all of that.

So, These, the cherubim are, they cover their faces and their feet when they're worshiping the Lord here. So there's, the cherubim was put, I think in, is it Genesis chapter three, where there's a cherub who guards the Garden of Eden so that no human can get back into the garden in order to eat from the tree of life and live forever. So there's, I don't think there's any of us that would measure up to the kind of glory that is even of the highest angels who are there in the presence of God. And yet, not even these are able. to take the scroll and to look into it. That's what it says in verse three, no one, King James, I think says no man, but it's just Uday, it's just no one, no entity, okay, and that's, in archaic English, that's how they refer to it, it's probably more proper English, actually, probably shouldn't call it archaic.

No one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it, which means nobody in all of creation. Does under the earth mean hell? Does it mean the place of the dead? Does it mean the sea? We don't know. But nobody in all of creation is able to. Certainly nobody in hell is worthy. But is there any creature? Could Leviathan do this? Could, I mean, you just think about any of the creatures. Is there any of the great men who've died in history? Could King David take this scroll? You know? Could any of the greats do this? No. 

And so, verse four, John begins to weep. Why do you think John is crying? Is it just because his curiosity isn't able to be satiated? So why is it that John is crying? What do you think he recognizes about this scroll that causes him to cry? And I'm asking you. What do you think? Probably what you said before, work of God that can't be accomplished. Right. And I think he probably recognizes, too, that it's the word of work of God for the last things, for the destruction of the wicked and the overturning of all the work of the devil and the establishment of God's kingdom. 

you know, beyond just the existence of it in the church, the establishment of it over the whole world in terms of like the Daniel statue, kind of thinking of establishing of the kingdom. Yeah, so this looks like all of our hopes. are not able to come about, are not able to be realized. That's what it looks like. So you imagine, that would be really sad for you if, my family just lost our grandfather, right, and he's in glory now, but the hope is that is that he's not gone forever. We don't grieve as those without hope, 1 Thessalonians 4. There's an expectation of the resurrection and of being reunited with the whole triumphant church in glory and with the Lord, and being with the Lord forever, with the whole church. That's the hope. And if we then get to the edge of realizing that hope and we find out, well, actually, there's nobody who's able to make that happen. That would be devastating, right? So I think it's understandable. It's not just this is so glorious I can't handle it. I want to see more and now I can't see more. This is the realization of, as if the word of the Lord can't actually be accomplished here for the end of all things. 

Verse five, one of the elders said to me, stop weeping. Behold, the lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the root of David has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals. 

Okay, let's talk about elder first, this elder. Because my contention is that this is the church. This is the church here. And the reason, I think the strongest reason is that it uses the word elder. It uses the word, pres-bu-ter-to-ros, which is presbyter. Elder. There's three Greek words for elder. Presbyter, episkopos. Presbyteros, episkopos. And then the term for pastor, which is poimenos, I think, if I'm right. And that's shepherd. So you've got elder, overseer, and shepherd. And those are all referred to the same office. And here it's presbyteros. 

Now, the There's two categories of how to view these 24 elders. Did you walk through this, Joe? I don't remember exactly if you walked through these, how people see the two categories. And so it's either humans or angels. I almost said angles, but angels. And so the elders are one or the other, okay? Decreated beings, for sure, but it's either humans or angels. If it's angels, then it's some kind of, it's God's counsel, is usually how people talk about it, and counsel or court, or heavenly courtroom. And so it might not be counsel in terms of like, these aren't rulers, but they might be just a special category or class of angel in God's court, okay? And sort of protect yourself from the Michael Heiser kind of divine counsel stuff. Yeah. So, Robert Thomas thinks that they're God's court, okay? I'm gonna say, I think he's wrong, which is a little bold. Okay, I would never say that in class if I were with him. 

But, The main reason why they are able to get around saying, it's this word, which in the Bible is only ever used of humans, is that the appeal to the Septuagint, which is a translation, not the original, it's the Greek translation of the Hebrew Testament. So that's not the original, but I think it's Isaiah 24. 23 Yedis, in Isaiah 24, 23. And it's in the Septuagint, which is the LXX70. It says this, and it comes across in the English, very clear. 

Then the moon will be abashed, the sun ashamed, for the Lord of hosts will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, and his glory will be before his elders. And the argument is, this is the argument Robert Thomas made, which really confused me, why he found this compelling, is that that's talking about an angelic body. And I don't understand why that's the case, because the Lord is reigning from Mount Zion and Jerusalem. and his glory is before his elders. So I don't think there's anything in that verse that forces us to say that we need to see these as angels. 

That's the only use that I know of, of presbyteros, that has been argued to refer to angels. So then, if that doesn't stand, the other argument is that, well, because Buteros can refer to somebody who's old age, which is his most proper meaning, somebody with gray hair, is an elder. And therefore, since that person is usually the leader in the community, then the office of ruler came to be called elder. So then we can see this as a class of ruling angels just called elders. And again, I don't see a reason why that has to be the case, okay? So I'm going to argue that actually it needs to be humans because the arguments for it being angels are not compelling. 

Now, in verse nine, worthy are you to take the book and to break its seals, for you were slain and purchased for God. And anybody have the King James? Anybody? What does it say? It says purchased for God. It's in our memory work. Us. Okay. Yeah, with your blood. 

Now, in Revelation five, verse nine, The King James says to God, and then it says us. The us here is the big one in contention here. Now, I agree with Robert Thomas and the other guys who say this word probably isn't, in the original, and it actually bounces around in the manuscripts, or sometimes it'll be us to God, or to God us, and sometimes it doesn't show up. So it seems like it was a scribal addition later on to try to explain what was going on. It also doesn't agree with the other pronouns. So if you look at verse 10, it says, you have made them to be a kingdom of priests to our God, and they will reign upon the earth. 

Then why do we have a singular one in verse nine that says us, okay? Or not singular, first person. There's third person them, why are we talking about us first? It doesn't agree and those would just be two reasons why this is probably a later addition. Does that mean that we then have to make these 24 elders, to be some kind of angelic host with the four living creatures because they're all singing this. It says that in verse eight, the 24 elders fell down, the four living creatures and 24 elders fell down and they sang a new song at the beginning of verse nine. I don't think so. I don't see a reason why we have to make these of the same category. of all being angels. We see myriads and myriads and thousands of thousands of all living creatures in verse 11. And in verse 12, every created thing that is in heaven and on earth and under the earth, that's not just angels, are worshiping the Lord. So it's not like only angels are allowed to worship the Lord. We're gonna be doing that.

So I don't see compelling reasons to say we have to make this angels. In fact, I think it's because of Presbyteros, it's probably representatives of the church. So one more rejoinder would be, well then why in verse nine and 10 does it talk about, are these elders saying that you've saved them? As if the elders aren't a part of that group. I say, well, cause they're talking in general terms. about the group they're representing. I think that's a perfectly fine solution to what seems like a problem. I don't think it's a problem.

So you say, all right, James, I'm confused. I didn't really follow, so what am I supposed to believe? You say, I think And I'm pretty convinced of it, that these 24 are representatives of the church, and we have the whole church there at this point in heaven. And so when John says, is weeping, and then in verse five, one of the elders says to him, that is a real person, a glorified person, who is saying to him, don't cry, because the Lamb, the Lion of the tribe of Judah has overcome and so has to open the book and it seals.

Which brings up a question that maybe is more suited for like Christopher Nolan film, which is if we're there in the future, okay, and John was transported to the future, when we're there, are we gonna see John in the spirit talking to this elder? I have no idea, but that's kind of fascinating to think about.

Okay. Let's talk about the Lord here in verse five. Let's talk about the Lord Jesus. This is who we should be talking about anyway. It doesn't matter if we're gonna see John or not. This is who we should be talking about. He's the lion, the lion of Judah. And he's the root or stem or shoot of David.

Okay, Lion of Judah. Where, if you hear that phrase, you're learned, or if I use the Thomas Watson phrase, you are wise. Where in scripture does that cause your mind to go? I think about, is there a place in scripture that you can think of where we would be, where Judah would be spoken of as a lion or one coming from Judah would be spoken of in these terms? Anybody? You got one? It's when Joseph's sons were standing there and they were blessed. Yeah, it's when Jacob blesses his sons, right? Yeah, that is, It's right before 50, so it's probably 49. Genesis 49. Yeah, there it is. Genesis 49, verse eight.

Judah, your brothers shall praise you. Your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies. Your father's sons shall bow down to you. Judah is a lion's whelp. From the prey, my son, you have gone up. He crouches, he lies down as a lion, as a lion who dares rouse him up. The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until Shiloh comes, and to him shall be the obedience of the peoples.

So Judah is prophesied to be, I think that's right, I think it's Genesis. 49, eight and following. Judah is the ruling tribe. This created a problem because it seems like Joseph gets the right of the firstborn from his father. And so Ephraim, there's a point, I forget which judge it is, but there's maybe Gideon. There's a judge who goes up and then after he wins, Ephraim sends messengers and is like, why didn't you tell us first before you went and fought? They weren't doing anything to begin with, but they were chafed because they were the head tribe. So it's interesting that there's some tension like that, but as it plays out, you see that the scepter is in Judah, and that's in the line of Jesse, it's in the line of David, is where the scepter is.

That's the next phrase, root stem shoot of David, and this is from, anybody remember? It's Isaiah. What chapter? Anybody remember? You say, you're teaching. Yeah, 11, that's right. 11, one, and fall. So let's read that, and you'll see this, you'll go, oh, that's exactly. It couldn't be from anywhere else.

This is also gonna help us when we see that the lamb comes with seven horns and seven eyes and all of that, and you say, where is that coming from? Well, if you look at this in Isaiah chapter 11,

Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse. Say, okay, hold on. Revelation said a root of David. That says Jesse. Okay. Well, who's Jesse? David's father. Okay. So there's no, there's no concern here. We're still in the same, the same bloodline, the same, not just the same family, but the exact same, you know, exact same direct bloodline here.

So a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse. A branch from his roots will bear fruit. The spirit of, we get the Lord. Make that, it's Yahweh. Of the Lord will rest on him. Of wisdom. And understanding. And of counsel. And strength. I'm numbering these because you're going to see it's going to hit seven. Spirit of knowledge. And the fear of the Lord. and he will delight in the fear of the Lord. He will not judge by what his eyes see or make a decision by what his ears hear. With righteousness, he will judge the poor and decide of fairness for the afflicted of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth and with the breath of his lips, he will slay the wicked. The righteous also will be the belt about his loins and faithfulness, the belt about his waist.

Okay, why do I number that out here? To show you this is Root, Stem and David because This is the Lord Jesus. He has overcome, it says in verse five of Revelation five, so as to open the book and its seven seals. He has overcome. Okay, so please recognize that in chapter four, God is worshiped as creator. He's worshiped for being God. In chapter five, the lamb is worshiped for being Messiah. Okay, for what he accomplished. Because he's overcome, so as to open the book and its seals. And who is this lion? This, the root of David, we know it's the Lord Jesus, and we've just, it's been, we've been giving it away left and right here, but look at verse six.

And I saw between the throne with the four living creatures and the elders, a lamb standing as if slain. We don't even need to, but John 1, behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. And that's the same John who wrote this. So he's, so it agrees. And the same John who wrote this, wrote that about John the Baptist, a different John saying that. It should be very clear, John the Baptist didn't write these books.

But the lamb standing as if slain, because how did he overcome? How did he win? It's the word Nike, victory. How did he gain victory? What did he do? Somebody, what did the Lord do? He died. Yeah, he fully satisfied the wrath of God against sin, against sinners. He overcame. So why is he worthy to take the scroll? You say, well, because he's God, right? That's the classic, you know, how is it that he could do this? Because he's God, you're right. That does give him the right to do, you know, anything God can do, but, Why is he worthy to take the scroll? Because the scroll is for the one who fully accomplishes his father's will in bringing about the salvation of sinners and the perfect victory over sin and death. That's who the scroll is for. So we haven't done that. We're just the beneficiaries, right, of his work, which is just astounding. There's nothing we did to gain that kind of right. It's the Lord who did it.

He has seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God. Now in chapter one, we walked through that because in chapter four, he has the seven spirits who are before his throne, that's in chapter one, verse four, excuse me. And I think he says in, I don't remember where else, he says he has the seven spirits, and I'm just, I don't wanna take time to find it. And we looked at Zechariah four, verse two, to see that there is a connection, at least in terms of the imagery, but Isaiah makes it really clear And I'm not pitting Zechariah and Isaiah against each other, I'm just saying that they're in agreement here, okay? So Isaiah is another place you can go to see this.

The Spirit of God, singular, is you could say the seven-fold Spirit, because His knowledge and His wisdom are complete. And you see that with the, Horns is like a ram's horn, it's a picture of power. And then eyes have to do with what you can see. And if you can see something, you know something, right? So his knowledge is full and perfect. And he's sent out into all the earth. You say, well, it's spirits of God sent out into all the earth, but it's referencing this, that his knowledge is perfect and full. There's not... There's not nine members of the Trinity, right? The Father, the Son, and seven Spirits. There's the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. And the Spirit is the sevenfold Spirit. He's full and complete, and he's lacking in nothing. His knowledge is perfect and all-searching, et cetera, et cetera.

We confess in our, one of the creeds, it's a Nicene Creed. that the Spirit is sent by the Father and the Son, not just the Father, but is sent by the Father and the Son. And the Lord Jesus says this in John 14 through 16, I forget which verse it is in which chapter, that if he goes, he will send the Spirit, right? Another helper like me, he says. So the Lord Jesus sends the Spirit, and there's this, this, economical order of them and the different economical functions that they each perform, which is just astounding.

All right, he comes and he takes the book from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. Everyone falls down to worship and there's three worship occurrences, periods, moments, statements, maybe. There is the, in verses nine to 10, the new song in verses 12, in verse 12, that there's this other song, worthy is the lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing. And then in verse 13, to him who sits on the throne and to the lamb be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever. and everyone falls down and worships him.

Now. We know, our theology, we know from what we've been taught that the Lord Jesus is fully and truly God, right? Consubstantial with the Father. So he's of the same substance as the Father. They're both equally God. We've drawn this out before, but if you have God as the essence, you've got Father, you've got Son, you've got Holy Spirit, and each of them is, God, but they are not each other, right? That's the only picture of a Trinity that actually is actually faithful to what the Bible teaches. If you say, I'll draw three-leaf clover or something, it doesn't work. But they are consubstantial because they have the same substance or essence.

Now, this makes it very clear that that's the case with the son and the father. Because look at verse 13, look at their song in verse 13. Or, I'm assuming it's a song because it seems to be just like what's in verse nine and 10. But it just says, saying, to him who sits on the throne, that's the father. and to the lamb, that's the son, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever. If Jesus is not God, how dare you ascribe the glory of God to him? This is why the Jews who just rejected that he was God from the outset, they didn't pay attention to what his works and his teachings and the signs that God was working through him. around him with the spirit coming down and resting on him and all kinds of stuff. They rejected all of that clear evidence and they had just determined that he wasn't God and they chose not to believe in him. And so then they got really angry when he claimed to be God, because you can't, that's blasphemy, you can't claim to be God. There's only one God. But here we see it very clearly, no, the Lord Jesus is God. deserving of the same glory that the Father deserves, which is astounding in its magnificence, but not surprising to us, but important.

Okay. Let me give you this quick scheme of revelation, and I'm just gonna show you this chart from Robert Thomas. This is where we're going. This is six through... Well, Thomas actually would argue that the seventh bowl goes all the way through chapter 22. So he does that in an excursus, like an appendix in his commentaries. But we can say this is at least chapter six through 19. is this scheme. Let me bring it up a little bit here. I want to make this point. The sixth seal contains all of this. And the seventh trumpet contains all of this, all the bolts. 

Okay, the way this happens, and I think it's probably written out pretty well here, you see that these are big, then these are smaller, the trumpets are smaller, then the bowls all happen, they're stacked one on top of each other. And if you were to go through the book, I'm out of time and I wanna be able to let you ask a couple of questions, so I'll just say this, but if you were to go through the book, There's what's called these intercalations, as the technical term is used. It's these little interludes that happen where you have this sequence of seal to seal to seal to seal, and then there'll be a break where it'll talk about something else, and then it'll come back to that sequence. And if you account for those, one of those is like chapter 12 through 15, I think. So that's big, it's a big part of the book. Yeah, it's chapters 12 through 14. 

So, I mean, that's a lot of verses, but if you kind of account for those and look at just seals, trumpets, bowls, you realize that this is happening, it's like the judgments just ramp up right near the end and they just start to come really fast. So they, That's what occurs, all the bowls come out at once. The seals occur one after the other, the trumpets occur one after the other, and then at the last trumpet, all the bowls come out. There's seven angels that come out all at once, and he talks about them happening in sequence, but it's probably not a huge drawn out sequence. It's probably like a rolling broadside, if you think of the Napoleonic War naval ships, where it's just the one cannon fires, and the next cannon fires, and the next cannon fires, and just moves down the whole line. So that's the basic scheme of the book. 

This accords with, so you've been where it has the same thing, seals, trumpets, and then all the bulls happen. There's accords of the 70th week of Daniel, which is the tribulation period. And this is from Daniel 9. Daniel 9 talks about this, that you've got a covenant made and then a covenant broken with the abomination of desolation in the temple. And then at the end, the second coming of the Lord. And you see the covenant made is here. Covenant is broken here, the Lord comes back here, and this whole period, the judgments ramp up. Okay? That's the scheme. That's what we're going to be seeing as we go through the book.

All right, comments, questions? I could take a few. I'm cheating our break a little bit, but I won't be too bad.

Yeah? How could John know it was a new song when he just got there? That's a good question. And was he using human logic that it had to be post-Ascension and therefore only 60 years old? And what was the old song? You know, Joan, you ask the most insightful questions, which I love. And I thought that I knew it well enough to be ready for anything you threw at me. I don't know. I don't know. But keep asking him, because it helps keep me on my toes. All I can say is somehow he knows it's a new song. And... He's using logic, I'm saying. Yeah. It must be, because there's nobody who tells him, write down, record the words of this new song. So he must be, yeah, that would be. He's certainly, even though he's in what's called an ecstatic state because he's taken up in the spirit, it's not like he's out of control of his senses. This isn't a drug trip. This is a, which sounds vulgar to even say that. He's in full control of his faculties, but he's in the spirit.

Okay, so yeah, he certainly has the ability to reason, right? Why else would he be crying that nobody can open the scroll? He knows the significance of that.

Joe, did you raise your hand? Well, that's what I was going to ask about, why the elder knew, unless John did not know that the lamb was able. Right. I think John, if he'd seen the lamb, would have known the lamb was able. I just don't think he noticed the lamb yet, is what it is. Yeah. Because he says, then he looked, and in the midst, he sees the lamb. Yeah. So I think that's, it's like the elder says, no, no, look. We don't need to cry. Because look, he's worthy. Isn't it, John, that says that at that time we will know even as we are known? Yeah. Yeah, wonder glorified, yep. Behold him, you'll see him as he is.

Yes? Back to verses nine and 10 and the grammar part of the us and them, I may have not followed that correctly. I didn't say it very clearly, I apologize. Well, that way. At the end of verse nine it says, purchase for God with your blood, and then my Bible has inserted the word men, from every tribe and tongue and people and nation, for you have made them to be a kingdom." So doesn't that clarify? Yeah. It fits with the way that, because the New American Standard, the translators there, and I think of every other translation as far as I know, chose to They were convinced that the us should not be in there. So then they supplied the word men, where legacy supplies people, which is a little confusing, because people shows up later, in order to clean up the English and help us understand. Otherwise, the Greek would read, purchased for God with your blood from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. So the men, the redeemed, is assumed in the Greek. which is probably why a later scholar wanted to put something in there. It's just the us and the them didn't agree with what you were saying.

Yeah, if you say us, then why is it them later on? Yeah, you'd think it would say us. Yeah. Final question, comment? So did John lose a little bit of faith there when he started? Yeah, I don't know. She asked if John lost a little faith when he started crying. I don't know. I don't know if I could say that. But certainly, even though he's in the spirit, he's not glorified yet. So it's possible that his faith could oscillate between strong and weak. So it's certainly possible. I'm not certain if that's the best way to think of it.

Does his weeping because he doesn't see the scroll being able to be opened now, does that mean he doubts that it ever will be able to be opened? I don't know. He might not be doubting God, but he's not able to see it now, and that's what he's weeping about. So I don't know if it is weak faith or not. You implied that the scroll was something like a certificate of accomplishment for Christ. That's in human terms. Is that an analogy, a lesser analogy? Yeah. It is some kind of official document provided by God for the one who overcomes. Does that mean it includes the title deed to creation? Could be. It would be entirely reasonable. Almost all the guys I read say yes, except for Thomas. He didn't think it did. He said, it contains what we see happening in the book. Well, that's true, but it could also be the title deed as well. So yeah, I think it has to, it certainly is for the one who's worthy. I don't know if it necessarily contains a certificate of his worthiness, but only, it's kind of like in a, there's only a certain, the executor of the will is able to read the will, right? Nobody else can. So I think it's that kind of thing where it's only for one who's overcome. Does that mean it contains credentials inside it? I'm not sure. Yeah. But it certainly includes the right of God to execute the wrath of God and bring about the dominion of God on creation. Certainly that much is there.

All right, let me close in prayer and then we can take our break.

Heavenly Father, we praise you for the victory over sin and death that is in Christ Jesus. And we praise you that we are able to look into the future really as it is here in this text and see that the Lord Jesus will take the scroll from your hand and he will bring about his perfect rule on this earth. We praise you that we As those who have been set apart for you and those who trust in the Lord Jesus, we praise you that we, so insignificant as we are, are able to be recipients of your goodness and your kindness and that we can rule and reign with the Lord forevermore. We ask that he would come quickly, And until then, we ask that you would bless our ministry, that you would cause your gospel to go forth to all the ends of the earth, and in our context, church, to each part of this city, and that you would call your people to yourself. They would repent and believe and find salvation in Christ Jesus. It's in his name we pray, amen.