Well, good morning. Welcome to our Sunday school hour. It's a joy to be back as a Many of you knew I spent the last week in the Netherlands. It definitely felt like the Netherlands. It's been an interesting transition. It's been a long time since I've traveled a long distance. And so the jet lag has been an interesting experience this time. The sleep went right back in, right on schedule. But for some reason, my stomach still thinks that it's breakfast time at midnight. Don't tell my wife. I've had a lot of midnight snacks. I think she knows. I think she knows. But it's a joy to be back here, and it's a joy to be going through the book of Revelation with you all. It's strange for me to think of myself here teaching eschatology.

It doesn't feel like that long ago when I was still dating Liesl, and I remember a point. She's not here. I'm, of course, speaking of Marlene Bystrom, who warned my wife about dating me because she had suspicions that I was all millennial. I was not, but the suspicion was there, and so we've come a long way in a lot of different senses.

We're gonna try to avoid controversy this morning. In Revelation, there is a wide host of interpretations of what we're seeing and what we're studying. And I know that even amongst the elders of Trinity Bible Church, there's different opinions about different things. And so we're gonna try to avoid controversy. Eschatology is meant to be Not a controversy, but it's meant to be a blessing. It's meant to be an encouragement.

And that's something that we see even in the first words of this book. It's one of the only books in the Bible that says this about itself, though you can apply this truth to all of the books of the Bible. In Revelation 1-3, we read, And so even in the beginning of the book, we read a pronouncement of blessing for those that are looking upon these things and studying these things. because they are meant to be an encouragement and a blessing to us. And so we'll try to keep our focus on that and try to keep, even as we look now, as we're starting in chapter 6 and looking at these visions of the future, of what is coming in the Lord's eschatological plan.

We'll try to keep these things as encouraging as we can. And if we do strain a controversy, I've got my eyes peeled for the deacons and the rest of the elders to escort me out in case I stray off the beaten path. So, well hopefully this is a time of blessing for us all.

So let's open with a word of prayer and we'll look into the things that the Lord has for us this morning. Our Lord and our eternal Heavenly Father, Lord, we are so thankful, Lord, for these words that you have given to us in your word. Lord, we thank you that you are Lord and Savior. Lord, we pray that as we open your word this morning, Lord, you would open our eyes, you would open our hearts to fully understand, to fully comprehend these things. Lord, we pray that they would be a blessing to us. Lord, we pray that you would cause us to walk more closely with you as a result of these things. Lord, be with us all, especially those that aren't able to be here.

Lord, we pray that your word would bless each and every one of us. We pray in Jesus' name, amen. So let's start by looking at just a short period of review. We are in chapter six this morning. So we'll start just reminding ourselves of what we've seen so far that have got us to this point. In chapter one, we started out the study of this book by looking at a vision of Christ. And in verses 13 through 18, we read these words about that vision.

And in the midst of the seven candlesticks, one like unto the son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and gird about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were a flame of fire.

And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace. And his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars. And out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword. And his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying, fear not, I am the first and the last. I am he that liveth and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen, and have the keys of hell and of death.

And so we see this glorious vision of Christ, which really is a consummation of all of the Old Testament types and pictures of the coming Messiah. And most notably, there's two passages that that calls back to, as we've talked about before. One in Malachi chapter 4 and verse 2. But unto you that fear my name shall the son of righteousness arise with healing in his wings and you shall go forth and grow up as calves of the stall. So a little bit of a strange verse, but the coming Messiah is pictured as the sun.

And when Christ appears here, we see someone who is, has a countenance as bright as the sun. Another picture that this calls back on is of course the vision in Daniel. which looks at the coming Messiah as both the ancient of days, but also someone who is like unto the son of man. And so in this vision, we have really the consummation of the Messiah and that Jesus Christ is that, that savior. He is the Messiah that's going to fulfill God's purpose to the world. And so it's a glorious picture and it's one that calls us to worship. And we move forward into chapters two and three, and we looked at the messages that that glorious Savior had for the churches.

And we, obviously these are messages to the church. but they're equally so a vision of Christ who is in the churches. He's walking amongst the churches. This is the one who walks amongst the seven candlesticks. And so it's still a vision of Christ and his work in the church. And therefore it's a vision of Christ among us, walking in our midst, who sees our works, who sees what's going on among us, and commends us for what we do well and exhorts us to turn away from our sin and our failings in the same way that He exhorted these seven churches to turn away from their sin and commended them for their righteousness as well. And these verses, as we've looked at, they have a lot of application for us because we are just like those seven churches in a lot of different ways.

The way that they have failings, we have the same failings. Especially looking at that first church, I have somewhat against you because you've left your first love. It's something that resonates in our own personal spiritual experience. It's very easy to recall the way that we loved the Lord when we first came to Him, and sometimes that's not our experience in the current moment. And so these things are a challenge and a conviction to us because the messages are for the church, they're for those historical churches, but being just like them, those exhortations are perfect and a perfect fit for us as well.

And then getting us much closer to this morning, we looked at chapter four and five, and we got caught up to a vision of Christ's throne. And there's really two pictures there, but they fit together. And first in chapter four, we have this vision of Christ's throne with the 24 elders, with the four beasts, and you have the beginning of a worship service. And really the point of that service is found in verse 10 and 11, where we read, the four and 20 elders fall down before him that sat on the throne and worship him that liveth forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne saying, thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power.

For thou has created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. And so the point is, Christ is worthy. And He's worthy of worship. And He's worthy of that worship because He is the Creator. He's the one that made all things. And that fits together with chapter 5, which is a very, very similar picture. where we see, as we talked about last week, we see this book, this scroll that contains God's final purpose to judge, to redeem, and to end God's plan in the world.

And who was worthy, and that's the same word that this chapter picks up on, to open the book and to fulfill God's purpose towards mankind and God's purposes towards history. And that person that's worthy is Jesus Christ. And it's not worthy, Jesus Christ is not worthy because he is simply the creator. but because He is the Redeemer. And in verses 9, starting in verse 9, we read, They sang a new song, saying, Thou art worthy, again that same thought, to take the book and to open the seals thereof. For Thou wast slain and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred and tongue and people and nation, and hast made us unto our God kings and priests, and we shall reign on the earth. And I beheld and heard the voice of many angels round about the throne, and the beasts and the elders, and the number of them was 10,000 times 10,000 and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, worthy is the lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.

And it's a beautiful picture, and it's a beautiful truth, that the Lord is worthy of praise, not just because He is the Creator, He's worthy of praise because He is our Redeemer. He's the Savior of all things, and He is coming again to establish His purpose in redemptive history here upon the world. And so, we're going to pick up that idea of the book that He's holding in His hand that's been sealed with seven seals, which really represents really the beginning of this vision of what is to come in the future. And so we'll start here in verse number one of chapter number six, and we'll read to the end of the chapter together. And I saw when the lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were, the noise of thunder. One of the four beasts sang, come and see. And I saw, and behold, a white horse.

And he that sat on him had a bow. and a crown was given unto him, and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red. And power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another. And there was given unto him a great sword. And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see.

And I beheld, and lo, a black horse, and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny, and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold, a pale horse, and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth to kill with the sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw unto the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, how long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them. And it was said unto them that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren that should be killed as they were should be fulfilled.

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal. And lo, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. And the stars of heaven fell onto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, fall on us. and hide us from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of His wrath has come, and who shall be able to stand? Amen. So, we're coming to these words in chapter six, and so the question immediately faces us, what are we looking at here?

What do these seven seals represent? And we'll start by looking at them as a whole, because that really affects how you look at them individually, how you view them as a whole. And looking at these, there's really, obviously there's a lot of different divisions of views that you could go into, but there's really only two ways that you can look at these two, or these seven seals. You can look at these literally, and you can look at them as specific references to single events that occur at a certain point in time.

And that's typically, I think, the more common way that we have of looking at these things. That's certainly kind of the more traditional way that we interpret these verses. Then there's also the more figurative look at these things, which is a more spiritualized way of interpreting these verses. And that looks at these verses as symbolic fulfillments through the ages of these things until Christ returns.

Um, there's probably some small advantages to one over the other, or even some small advantages in both of those ways of looking at these things. Um, I've been going through a book and it uses a lot of fancy words, like an eclectic way of bringing these two things together or inaugurated fulfillment, which really is just a fancy way of saying the simple word both. Um, and you can get there in the end. Um, which is a way of saying that as you look at these things, there's a way that you can look at these things, especially these first five seals as being a fulfillment of all history up all the way back to Christ, but also having a final fulfillment at a specific point in history. And I think there's a lot of advantages of looking at these verses in that sense.

And the reason I think why this is not just a practical way of looking at it, but there's some advantages to that spiritually, is that we can look at these events and we can see that while these events are yet future, They also are not dissimilar to the current experience that we are having now, and also that the church has had throughout its entire existence. And one of the wonderful things that I found in looking at prophecy and in the Bible is that God has ordained all of history in such a way that you have this event that's yet future that mirrors a lot of things that have happened in the past. And I think if you take something as simple as the desolation of Jerusalem, I think is a good example of that, where you have in the Olivet Discourses this picture of the destruction of Jerusalem that occurred in 70 AD, but also looks forward to something that's going to be happening again in the future in the time of the Antichrist. God has ordained history such that you have the same event that you can be looking at in both time periods.

And it causes a lot of confusion, I think, because some people say, no, we're just looking at one or we're just looking at the other. But in reality, the events mirror each other because that's the way that God has ordained history. And so I think starting out I think that's there's a lot of advantages to looking at that in such a way And so what these seven seals really do is is they bring us to the point where God is going to be pouring out His wrath upon the ungodly world. They bring us to the point where God is going to begin pouring His wrath out upon sin. And we see that in verses 16 and 17, where I like the way S. Louis Johnson put this.

He said, this is going to be the world's largest prayer meeting. but they're not going to be praying to the Lord. They're going to be praying to the rocks and to the mountains saying, protect us from Christ. Fall on us and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of his wrath has come and who shall be able to stand?

And so there's a recognizing of the entire world at this point that this is the time when Christ is going to punish the world for its sins. It's very clear to the entire world, and the scope of that is very clear in the 15th verse. And so it brings us to this eschatological moment where God is going to begin pouring out His wrath upon the world.

These seals in that are also not new teaching. That might sound strange, but while John is the author of Revelation, ultimately this Revelation comes from Christ. And this teaching, in it coming from Christ, is essentially a mirroring of the Olivet Discourse in Matthew chapter 24. And it mirrors it in a number of different ways.

Looking at it largely, you can look at the first four horses. that we looked at just in those first few verses of chapter number six, where we see four things. We see nation rising against nation, we see wars that are throughout the world, we see plagues, we see pestilence, and we see the beasts of the earth ultimately killing a large, large number of the world. And if you look at Matthew 24, starting in verse 5, you read these same words. See that ye be not troubled, for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

For nations shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there shall be famines and pestilences and earthquakes in diverse places, and all these are the beginnings of sorrows. And so we see that phrase, the beginnings of sorrow, some people have called that the birth pangs, but you see a very similar order of things that Jesus is predicting is going to come to pass, something that began to be fulfilled in the first century church. They experienced all of those things. They experienced wars. They experienced kingdom against kingdom. They experienced pestilence. They experienced earthquakes in diverse places. It's something that we experience throughout the ages as well.

But we see those first four seals mirrored there. Moving forward in our fifth seal, we see this vision of the souls of the Lord slain underneath the altar calling out for justice. In the Olivet Discourse, we read almost the exact, or at least a very close mirroring of those things. In verse number nine, they shall deliver you up to be afflicted and they shall kill you and you shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended and shall betray one another and shall hate one another and many false prophets shall arise and shall deceive many. And so we see that same theme or that same point of the persecution of the Lord's saints Again, something that began to be fulfilled in the beginning of the church continues to be fulfilled even today, and will reach a final consummation at some point in the future.

And that brings us to our sixth seal. We're going to slow down and we're going to look at these more closely. Again, we're just taking maybe a jet ship tour before we go back and look at these things more closely. But in the sixth seal, we see this great earthquake, the sun becomes black as sackcloth of hair, the moon becomes as blood, and the stars of heaven fall onto the earth in verses 12 and 13. And in Matthew 24, we read the exact same words. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, the moon shall not give her light, the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And at that point, we're gonna see the sign of the son of man in heaven, and all tribes of the earth shall mourn, which again, very closely mirrors what happens next in our passage as well.

And so the teaching of this chapter is new in a certain sense, but it's also a continuation of something that's been taught for a long time, not just by Jesus Christ, but also something that's been anticipated in the Old Testament. We'll just look at one of these, but this is a quotation from the Old Testament in Acts chapter two. verses 14 through 21.

This is Peter's sermon on the day of Pentecost. Peter standing up at the eleven lifted up his voice and said unto them, Ye men of Judea and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you and listen to my words. For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel.

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams. And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my spirit, and they shall prophesy. And I will show wonders in heaven above and signs in the earth beneath, blood and fire and vapor of smoke. the sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before that great and notable day of the Lord shall come.

And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. So obviously this is a quotation from Joel looking forward to that great and terrible day of the Lord. And You could continue in Peter's sermon, but really the point that he has there is firstly that what's happening there is a fulfillment of that first part of the chapter where the Spirit's been outpoured and they're going to be speaking in tongues. And he's also looking forward to the day that there's going to be a point where God's going to outpour His judgment upon the world. but you are currently living here in the point where whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

But he's still looking forward in Joel and also I think in Peter's discourse to that coming day of the Lord where we're going to see that same picture of the sun turning to blood, the sun turning black and the moon turning into blood. And so this is something that's been anticipated throughout scripture, this point where God is going to come in wrath upon the world.

Let's see. So just to kind of summarize what we've said, firstly, what we're seeing out here in these seals is we're looking at basically the end of the birth pangs. We're looking at the beginning of the point where God is going to be pouring out his wrath. And we're really inaugurating the days of judgment here in these verses.

We could look at when, and I think in the Olivet Discourse, we kind of see some allusion to that. It's very difficult to know when this is going to come, but when it does come, Jesus has, in the Olivet Discourse, something that I find very interesting, especially as we continue to go through the book of Revelation. He says that in that day, it's going to be like the days of Noah.

But there's going to be one taken in the field and there's going to be one left. There's going to be one grinding upon the mill, one is going to be taken, one is going to be left. And you have this very strange picture of judgment where essentially I'm an engineer, and so I think in mathematical terms, but you essentially have a 50% judgment rate in that. If that's the Lord's intention, I don't know, but that's what is said in that verse. And as we go through Revelation, there are many great judgments, but there's really two great judgments in Revelation. The first one we have here in chapter number six with the first four beasts.

And we see that as a result of their work, as you could say, you have a quarter of the world's population is going to die. It's a great judgment. The population of the world is 8 billion. So that would reference 2 billion people is what it's talking about there. It's tough to imagine that in scope.

There is a second great judgment, and that is the sixth trumpet. which is in, I didn't write down when it is, but it's in chapter nine, I believe. 9, 18, and it's looking at this demonic army that comes out of the earth. And in verse 18, by these three was the third part of men killed by the fire and by the smoke and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

And some people look at a quarter and then a third and say, okay, this is an escalation. And you could say that that's true, but if you take a quarter, you have 75% left. And if you take a third of that, what you take is another 25%. And so the first one takes 25%, the second one takes the exact same number. And what you get is 50% of the world's population is taken away in judgment in those two great plays. Obviously more people will perish in this time than that, but you have roughly the number 50% or 4 billion people if it was to happen today. So, interestingly enough, in Revelation, you essentially have one taken and you have one left.

And that may be what the Lord was intending to say there. It could also not be. And so, What I'm asserting is that these six or seven seals are the beginning of the Lord's judgment upon the earth. And in the passage itself, we have an indication that that's what we are supposed to be taking from this, and that is in the fifth seal. And in the fifth seal, we see the prayers of the saints that have been slain. And in verse 10, again, we'll read these words.

They cried with a loud voice saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them. And it was said unto them that they should rest yet for a little season until their fellow servants also and their brethren that should be killed as they were should be fulfilled. And so these saints that have been slain, they have a complaint and it's a just complaint.

And they're coming before the Lord and they're saying, why are you not judging the world for what they have done? Why are you waiting? And so in that you can see, at least from their perspective, they're looking at what's going on in the world and they're saying, the Lord has not come to judge. And we have been slain, we want to be vindicated, but that is not happening.

And then if we look forward, we're gonna take another two weeks to get to the seventh seal. because we have to go through chapter seven. When you get to chapter eight, we actually open the seventh seal, but there's silence in heaven about a half of an hour.

And the seven angels come to that same altar. They collect the prayers of the saints and they offer it before the Lord. And a censer is filled with essentially the judgment of the Lord in chapter eight, verse four, and it's cast down upon the earth. And what follows is the seven trumpets.

And so, what you see in verse 8, excuse me, chapter 8, is you see the beginning of God's wrath being poured out upon the world. It's a response to the prayers of the saints, but you see their prayers being answered there. And so in that, we're seeing the complaint that the Lord is not judging the world. And we see that complaint answered in chapter eight, starting in verse three, down to the end of the chapter, where their prayers are heard, they're received, and as a result, judgment falls upon man.

So the seventh seal ends God's delay in judgment. And so the question kind of naturally arises out of that. Am I saying that these events, these seven seals, are not part of Daniel's 70th week? Am I saying that... We're going through all these events, and then we're beginning Daniel's 70th week of the seven-year tribulation at the end of the seventh seal. And my answer to that is no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that when we get to the great and terrible day of the Lord's wrath, that is essentially coming at the end of the seventh seal. But I think more naturally reading, this is part of that seventh week. So maybe this is a dangerous thing to ask, but are there any questions or any comments? Go ahead.

Do you view the martyrs, the fact that they were under the altar? As their blood was poured out, do you view it as an offering, as reflected in Leviticus 4, 7, of the lifeblood was poured out at the base of the altar? I think so. I think it reflects the fact that precious in the Lord is the martyrdom of his saints. And so his saints standing up and being a true and faithful witness in a hostile world reflects the fact that in the eyes of the Lord, that is a faithful sacrifice, and it's an acceptable sacrifice before the Lord. And so I think there's different interpretations of that. There's kind of a more literal view, and it's that the fact that they're there is because they were offered by the Antichrist. That's why they're there in the temple altar. And I don't think that that's what we should take from that.

I think it's It is an acceptable sacrifice before the Lord, the martyrdom of His saints. And I think that should be an encouragement to us, to stand firm and be bold for the Lord here in the world, because the persecution of the church or the persecution of the saints is acceptable and well-pleasing before the Lord. And so that should be encouragement to us to be bold for Christ. When you say acceptable sacrifice, how do we interpret that if he doesn't want sacrifice? One sacrifice was made. So, I'm picking up on words in the scripture. I think, getting called out here, the book of Romans. Let's see. Help me out here, what verse am I thinking of? What's that? 12.1, I don't know why I turned to chapter eight.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And so there's a sense while he doesn't want physical sacrifice, he doesn't want us offering sheeps or goats, sheep or goats, Us living our lives for Christ is a living sacrifice that God actually does desire and is well-pleasing before Him.

I understand that, I just didn't coordinate it with the martyrdom being an acceptable sacrifice. Right. So us living a faithful life before the Lord might result in us being put to death for our faith. And that kind of a testimony is an acceptable sacrifice, though it's not as if God is asking us to go sacrifice Christians on an altar, if that makes sense.

Yeah, because that's sort of the demonic realm, you know, at that point. Sure. Yeah, I guess I do want to kind of clarify that the point of that verse and why it's there is that the faithful acts of the church is acceptable to the Lord. It pleases Him for His church to be faithful. And I think that's the exhortation there. It's interesting because when you're in an area where there is no choice but to die for your faith, it's another thing when you're in a very calm area where you don't live for him. That's not the more glorious way for his glory. Sometimes you can't help but get killed. Yeah, I think that's Sun Tzu. I think that said that. Place your soldiers into combat in positions where there is no escape and they will prefer death over flight. Yeah, different than... I guess it was probably not in anyone's bingo card that we talked about Sun Tzu this morning.

All right, let's see. One more question, then we'll move on. You're welcome to move on after I state my question here. It feels big. Sure. This request by these souls under the altar seems inconsistent with New Testament Christianity, which is grace and forgiveness. And so I guess the big question, which I'm sorry to put you on the spot like this, but how would one reconcile that? Obviously, it's reconcilable because it's here. The only thing I can think is that period of grace has now ended.

I think that would probably be a fair assertion to make, especially given what comes directly afterwards. But I think there's also a sense in which you know, my mind goes almost instantaneously back in hearing that to Abel, who, when he was slain by Cain, his blood cried out from the ground to the Lord for vindication and justice. And I don't think it was because he hated his brother, but it was because there was, in that violence that's done, I think in the eyes of the Lord, there is a natural I'm trying to find the words to put this, but in the Lord's character, there is a desire to bring justice to His creation. And I think the unjust slaughter of His servants, it has that effect.

But I think also you could make the assertion that it's the day of grace is over. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with that to a large degree. But I also don't think that it's inconsistent with a forgiving ethic to ask the Lord for justice. In the same way that if someone came and robbed your house and stole everything that you owned, you could both not harbor any hate or antagonism for that person in your heart, but also go to the judge and say, can you please give me my stuff back? I think those two things are, they're reconcilable. in the here and now, but I think also there. You can both harbor no ill will towards the person that killed you, but also call out to the Lord for justice.

Can I follow up? Sure. You're welcome to say no. It occurs to me as you're handling that, that my question may be born a little bit out of an American mushing view of grace because it's not arbitrary. There was a payment for the lack of my eternal death. And so these people may be saying, they're saying, Lord, be just. Be God. And if there hasn't been payment made through Christ, then make payment.

Yeah, yeah. I agree. I agree entirely. And I think also, you know, I've asserted that this is not just a reflection of history, but also future events. And I think in the light of future events, I think that that request makes a lot of sense in the light of kind of the scope of events that we're talking about there, kind of even more so than would make it in our current context. Let's see. Let's move on. We have about five more minutes. So we'll go through quickly. I think there's two more things that I wanted to talk about. We've kind of gone through this chapter kind of in an overview.

I think one major question that people have, especially looking at the four horsemen, is it's a very popular thought to look at that first horseman and to say, okay, that's Christ. That's Christ going out. And I think there's, you could look at the picture there. He's given, he's on a white horse. He has a crown. He goes forth conquering and to conquer. It's a very similar picture to something that we see later. I don't, like I said, I don't want to wade into controversy, but I don't think that that's what that is looking at.

And the reason I have for saying that is three things. Firstly, the white horse is not separate from the other three horses. are released sequentially, but they're part of the same troop of horses. I think this is the third set of four horses in scripture. I think there's two other ones. And in both cases, they're meant to go out as a set of four.

And it is inconsistent with the message of the four horses to separate him from the others. The second reason is every time Christ appears in Revelation, John can't help himself but to overflow with this list of worship and praise and accolades, and none of that's present here. So I don't think John is looking at this white horse and saying, okay, I think this is Christ, because he's not giving him any accolades, any worship, no praise. And then the thirdly, This horse isn't going out as it seems to redeem.

It seems that he's going out to condemn, to destroy, and to judge. And you could say, well, Christ is going out to redeem, condemn, and judge in this section. That's true, but I don't think that that is what is in view here. Because these four, they're separate, but they're also one. in the sense that authority was given unto them.

And, you know, any sort of pronoun is difficult in Scripture, especially in this, when it's uncertain what it's pointing back to. Is them pointing back to death and hell? Or is it pointing back to the four horses? I think more naturally points back to the four horses because given over them to kill with the sword, pointing back to the first and second horses with hunger, with death, and with the beasts of the earth. So it's really recalling all four horses, saying that they're going to kill the fourth part of the earth. And also note the bow of the imitator, the Antichrist, rather than the sword. He does have a sword later on in the book.

Right. I think the bow indicates it's a copycat. I've heard that as well. I think it can be dangerous to try to dig too deep into the symbols just because it kind of leaves you in a realm. I had a discussion with my dad about that very point where I took up the same point that you're taking and I eventually realized I was kind of getting down far enough in the rabbit hole that I was You know, going to verses, behold, Israel is a deceptive bow, and now the bow represents deception. And I was like, all right, that's how it represents the Antichrist. And I don't necessarily disagree with all of that, but I realized that it kind of left too much up to kind of my own subjective interpretation of what the symbols may refer to.

But I don't think that that's also not true. I think it is notable that he has a different weapon in his hand than Christ, who has a sword when he appears. So if it's not Christ, what is it? I think really when you look at that first horse, you're looking at national conflict. You're looking at national expansion that could be typified essentially in a single person. And we've seen a number of these throughout history.

Probably most notable would be someone like Alexander the Great. You think of national expansion, the Greeks inherited and conquered a massive empire, and it really was the work of one man. It was national expansion typified by Alexander the Great. You can look at Rome. Julius Caesar was an excellent example of this. France, Napoleon was a great example. Babylon is another great example. Nebuchadnezzar, the original Chad. And then lastly, this one I found was very interesting, is Germany.

Hitler. who expanded not just by conquering, but through kind of political mastery, deception, and politics and treaties. Before World War II even began, he expanded Germany's territory massively. not because he conquered, but just because he leveraged his political capabilities in a very effective way so that by threatening, he would march in and he'd be received as basically the ruler of that area. And so this person is going out. It's not necessary for him to be conquering in terms of this being physical warfare, but he is someone that's going out and expanding his control either via deception, via treaty, or even open conflict.

It doesn't rule that out, but I don't know if that's necessarily suggested here. And so what follows after that is an outbreaking of war, an outbreaking of famine, wild beasts, disease, and death, which is difficult for us to comprehend. We have a minute or two.

I thought this would be interesting. I wrote down what I view as, well, mathematically the four worst events in human history. So, what do you guys think? Four worst events in human history. Okay, that was number, that should have been 1A. I didn't write down the flood. Recorded human history. That was good. Not on my radar. That was excellent. That was excellent. After the flood. Are you talking human?

Human history in terms of population of the world that was destroyed. Human caused or gods? We're looking at war, plague, famine. War, plague, famine all together cause a period, let's say roughly a decade of trial. It would be the four worst events in human history. I see war as human cause.

Sure. It's all just a general period. God allowed, but not his will thing. Spanish flu. Spanish flu is number three, because it's associated with World War I. So in that decade, you have World War I immediately followed by the Spanish flu. About 100 million people between the two of them, 80 to 100 million people, about 5% was the global casualty rate. Truly catastrophic. That's number three.

Is that the same as the Black Death? No. The Black Death is number two, which followed the Mongolian invasion. Again, about a hundred million people throughout the two of them, but that was about 25% of the global population during the Black Death. About 70% of Europe died in the Black Death.

It's incredible, a hundred million people. Abortion, that's kind of a more long-standing one, but that, I didn't run the numbers on that, but that could certainly be, that's, the numbers on that are astounding. The other two, number four is World War II. It's about 100 million people. And the last one was Justinian's plague, about 600 AD, which was another 100 million, which is about 30% of the population of the globe around 600 AD.

So I guess the question that I wanted to ask was, have we ever seen anything of this scale? And we've actually seen something of this scale. I wrote down two times, three times. So we've seen events that are similar in proportion to this, but we've never seen anything to the scale of what we're talking about here in Revelation, where we're talking about 25% to 50% as a low estimate of what is going to be removed in the Lord's judgment, and that's four billion starting from today, 4 billion versus if you took those four worst events that we have in human history and put them together, that would be 400 million. And so, that's a factor of about 100 times less if you took all of them and put them here. You'd have to do that 100 times to get to where we're talking about here. So, that's kind of an incredible thought.

Oh, sorry, number one was Justinian's plague. which was basically the Black Death but 600 years, 800 years earlier. Did you notice that the plagues followed the wars? The plagues also followed the wars and I think that's kind of a reflection of one of the things that we I don't know if that's, they naturally outflow from it, but I think it is interesting that it follows a similar pattern in this, and it kind of follows the pattern of history. And I think the reason why it's ordered here is because war leads to a disruption in agriculture, which causes famine, and when you have the reduction of population, the reduction of food what you have naturally that comes to nest next is pestilence or disease and death which causes instability which causes war which causes famine pestilence and death and you really have uh... it's a cyclical cyclical thing because of the idolatry that caused them to go to war sure that could be a conversation for another time So, let's close in prayer, and then we can talk about it more.

If you have any questions, you can come to me, or you can come to... I guess you can come to me. All right, let's pray. Our Lord and Father in heaven, Lord, we thank you so much for this time around your word. Lord, we pray that you would cause it to affect our lives, Lord, as we look forward even to the day of redemption, also the day of judgment, Lord, and the terrible things that are going to take place in it. We pray that you would cause us to prepare our hearts, Lord, to seek you now, that we would be exhorted to stand up for you now, and Lord, that we would be an impact and a witness upon the world around us, that they might save themselves from this untoward generation. Lord, we pray that you'd bless us now as we prepare our hearts to seek you in this coming hour. In Jesus' name, amen.